I have read and agree to comments policy as posted here www.informationclearinghouse.info/c1.htm
Et tu, Brute?
"the 18 terrorists who devastated the world on 9/11"
I didn't know Gilad believed this crap...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 2:48 pm | #
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Gilad,please spell it out that these are FALSE FLG OPERATIONS by mossad/CIA/MI6
S.Balu | 11.30.08 - 2:54 pm | #
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My God Gilad, "liberal democratic fantasy" are you kidding me, huh so I guess this hasnt been about oil, banks and corporate greed after all, thanks for setting us straight Gilad. This garbage belongs on a right wing propaganda site not I.C.H..
Doug | 11.30.08 - 2:59 pm | #
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Much more convincing - The BJP have a few questions to answer ... The Attack in Mumbai II http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m4913...&hd=&size=1& l=e
Ex Pat | 11.30.08 - 3:19 pm | #
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(Jewish mambo jumbo)
Israel's new straegic partnership
...The new ties between Indian-Americans and Jewish-Americans parallel the dramatic turnaround in recent years in relations between India and Israel. Burdened by distrust throughout the heyday of India’s obsession with non-alignment, the two countries established full diplomatic links only in 1992. Since the installation of a BJP government in New Delhi in 1998, ties between the two – centering on shared security interests, arms sales, and intelligence cooperation – have kicked into high gear...
http://atheonews.blogspot.com/ 20...artnership.html
atheo | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 3:24 pm | #
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"making Arabs and Muslims as stupid as us is not going to work". Intersting. Why do you think that 1.5 Billions Arab and Muslims, despite all their oil reserves and wealth , are still impotent and dominated by the West? The proper sentense would have been "To keep Arabs and Muslims stupid". If half of these Arab and Muslim countries unite like the European are doing, they would be a powerful.Divide and conquer is a concept they haven't learned because thery are stupid.
Arizona | 11.30.08 - 3:25 pm | #
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Thanks Doug, couldnt have put it better myself.I cant believe Gilad and other so called intellectuals really believe the crap they write. Instead of cherchez la femme, try cherchez la moolah. Everything the west does is all about money and fuck democracy both abroad and at home.
LenNZ | 11.30.08 - 3:26 pm | #
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Arizona you are a moron because you know shit about Arabs. You have been brainwashed by the smart idiots of Hollywood and of CNN and Co.
you say:
"If half of these Arab and Muslim countries unite like the European are doing, they would be a powerful.Divide and conquer is a concept they haven't learned because thery are stupid."
i would not blame the lack of unity solely on their leaders but also on the West and more importantly Israel.
A united Arab front is not welcome.
Tito | 11.30.08 - 3:31 pm | #
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(Jewish mumbo jumbo)
9/11 was an inside Job. The planes hit the buildings was remote controlled.
Saddam Hussein is still alive, his double was hanged.
The astronauts did not land on the moon but it was a publicity ploy.
There is always this group of people somehow see everything through conspiracy angle..
Everything is conspiracy. Nothing is what it seems.
These people call a spade not a spade but it is a metal formed flat.
A duck is not a duck even if it quacks.
Obviously there is something wrong in the thought circuitry of these people. But these "inside job" theories become talking points and hi-jacks the true nature of events.
And of course lunacy has no limits. Some claims explosives being placed inside buildings and detonated remotely others claim planes being remote controlled by experts from Pentagon. or planes were just a laser illusion etc.
Here is a question for these conspiracists to answer..
Assuming it is an "inside job", How many individuals will it take to organize and execute 9/11?
First it has to be decided on political level. Then on military level. Thereafter technicians are needed. In the meantime you need the cooperation of many civilian organizations. And of course a command center coordinating activities of all these people involved. Otherwise an air traffic controller or a simple night watchman may spoil the whole plans if he is not on board. What about paperwork? A project of these magnitude cannot be realized without any paperwork or involvement of computers. They cannot work just word to mouth , experts work and communicate with pen, paper , calculators computers ..and they communicate extensively with each other.
Back to my question.. How many people do you think is needed? Can any of these conspiracists give me a number? No waffling just come forward and give me damn simple number?
Let me tell you. You need hundreds of people..hundreds of them. Now 9/11 "inside job" is over
Do you think not one of them will not come forward and spill the beans?
How can anyone with a little brain involve in a crime that has hundreds of partners?
And you Henk Ruyseenaar! don't copy and paste your standard letters as answers here.
I am an engineer and I don't like clowns manufacturing BS and clouding the facts.
I do know presence of web sites and articles peddled by so called "professors" and "experts" backing the conspiracy theories.
Well there is always mediocre engineers just like mediocre doctors and other proffessionals.
I wouldn't blame these "experts" but I would question the standarts of the universities who graduated them.
Cemal Guven Asti | 11.30.08 - 3:43 pm | #
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Once again, and still, India seeks to deal with problems by denying reality. This attack was not an attack against Indian democracy but, like 9/11, an attack against State sanctioned terrorism and a denial of freedom. India has as many Muslims as Pakistan and there has been a steady rise in Hindu fundamentalism … Hindoostan for Hindus is the catchcry… and increasing violence toward and discrimination against Muslims.
Add to this the festering sore of Kashmir …. where India plays the role that Israel plays in Palestine and the US plays in Iraq and the international community plays in Afghanistan, and you have a fertile bed for disaffection and revellion.
Add to this the appalling inequalities and hopelessness of life for most Indians where poverty, illiteracy and homelessness are a way of life while the Government spends billions upon billions on military hardware, a space programme for heaven’s sake, and a nuclear weaponry industry and you can see why just some of India’s billion odd people might be ripe for rebellion.
No, one does not condone the violence, ever, but one can understand it in light of the violence done by the Indian Government to Kashmiris in particular and Muslims in general.
It is sheer fantasy to talk about a uninted India. It has never been united. It is in fact a nation which did not exist until the British cobbled it together as part of their empire and then left it as one State, minus the partition of Pakistan. Another totally disasterous action. India was a collection of mini-royal states, more like an Indian ‘Europe,’ it was never one country. Those in the South had different cultural origins and language to those in the North and the miracle is that India has survived for so long. The people of Assam are neither racially nor culturally Indian and yet as part of the old British Empire were bundled in with India. Like Africa, the colonial powers gave no thought to borders, race, culture or religion. The result is chaos.
Read William Dalrymple for greater understanding of India past and present and look to the source of this latest atrocity. You will find its bones in the same place as 9/11- aggression by government, State sanctioned terrorism, meddling foreigners and the arrogance of power.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commen...-terror- attack…
Roslyn Ross | 11.30.08 - 3:46 pm | #
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The author has received a few appropriate answers from some posters here. This article is interesting:
http://www.samarmagazine.org/arc...icle.php? id=275
kirk. | 11.30.08 - 3:48 pm | #
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The is no power on earth that can put an end and stop the "Moslem Freedom Fighters" your so-called terrorists.
As long as there is a so-called "State of Israel" and it is being supported and aided by the West, the world of Islam finds itself obligated to come to the aid of their Palestinian brothers and sisters.
Stop wasting your time, money and blood on something that you will NEVER be able to put an end to. You want to support and arm the Jews in the so-called Israel, you have to learn to suffer the consequences and endure the pain.
Manyook BinSharmoot | 11.30.08 - 3:59 pm | #
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Cemal Guven Asti | 11.30.08 - 3:43 pm seems to be some kind of Bush's sibling - a halfbrother perhaps...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 4:02 pm | #
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(Jewish mumbo jumbo)
Cemal Guven Asti | 11.30.08 - 3:43 pm
"How many people do you think is needed? Can any of these conspiracists give me a number? No waffling just come forward and give me damn simple number?
Let me tell you. You need hundreds of people..hundreds of them. Now 9/11 "inside job" is over
Do you think not one of them will not come forward and spill the beans?
How silly! Many HAVE come forward Cemal. How long are you going to wait for FOX or CNN to put them on tv? For some, reality is only what the psy-ops people presnt on tv. The rest of us are living in the real world.
atheo | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 4:20 pm | #
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The "official report" had info from a Flight Data Recorder from the Pentagon Boeing. Not one other molecule from the Boeing survived. Not skeptical?
A world champion acrobatic pilot would give up the talent 'cause he can't stand Suburbans?
Is this author really that gullible or just another distraction?
Thought it was 19 Arabs.
kla | 11.30.08 - 4:33 pm | #
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to put it into plain simple words that even a first grader can understand that the author is saying ..."keep your nose clean."
just a few words says it all.
bluetiger | 11.30.08 - 4:49 pm | #
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I'm usually in agreement with Atzmon but he seems to be negating the fact that it's been over 60+ years, and that part of the world is in turmoil..the turmoil Herzel envisioned for the Middle East and spreading to India...
The US/Uk/Israel no doubt were involved using Israel tactics..
Bombing civilians and a cluster bomb mentality on the way out has always been a Israeli operations.
Israel sees the handwriting on the wall and this is last 'big one' to get us all behind their agenda.More money for arms and big expenditures for Indian defenses and confrontations with India and Packistan..it's a scenario made in Israel.It's business and the business is killings..all of which we 3 excell..
It was never the Muslims..it's always been the Zionists and they've played us like a cheap violin. WE HAVE NOW COMPLETELY TAKEN OUR AND EVERYONE ELSE'S ATTENTION OFF THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM..Hmmm..do you think this might have been a set up?
Edithann | 11.30.08 - 4:58 pm | #
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Whether its about oil or smarts or Democracy, doesnt mean a thing really. If you kill and maim someones family and build bases in their backyard - Dump cluster bombs that continue to kill their children along with spreading D.U. all over their country, and flatten their homes, You will eventually make them angry enough to be willing to go to their grave (if they can take you and yours with them). Wounded and cornered and starving is when animals are at their most deadly. Humans are no different. For every one we kill or cripple an enemy we will make. His family's hatred will be great enough to seek revenge for most if not all of their days. You can be of the viewpoint that they are stupid for choosing to lead extremely simple lives, or not living as you and I do. But it is we who are stupid for backing ourselves into a corner where we are forced to spend insane amounts of money on never ending wars and surrendering so many of our freedoms in the name of Homeland (in)security. Money that used to be spent on roads schools and healthcare. And the terror attacks - will keep on happening. Until we stop making enemies. Criticize and place the blame wherever you like, it wont make a difference. Rich poor oil or no, an eye is still an eye and a tooth is still a tooth.
Brad | 11.30.08 - 5:13 pm | #
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Cemal Guven Asti,
Why is it that you totally believe 19 young men with knives can pull off a terrorist attack of this magnitude without any real help. And yet to your mind it would be absolutely impossible for trained professionals on the inside to do it without a paper trail and thousands of technicians, etc, helping them?
That's the problem with your logic.
Mr. Helpful | 11.30.08 - 5:19 pm | #
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CEMAL GUVEN ASTI,
You know very well that when the Pentagon was hit by "that plane", it was monitored by so many cameras.
WHY is it then that the US government does not show all the footage of ALL the cameras to the world?
IS THERE SOMETHING THEY ARE HIDING FROM US?
I want to see ALL the footage of ALL the cameras so I can see what actually hit the Pentagon.
I am not sure you would too BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO DUMB AND STUPID TO THINK FOR YOURSELF. YOU RATHER REGURGITATE THE VOMIT THEY FEED YOU THROUGH THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.
Han Barkmeyer | 11.30.08 - 5:19 pm | #
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It was a inside job That was planned Over the years And let us not forget What is happening In Iraq
anonymous | 11.30.08 - 5:59 pm | #
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Oh! never mind the tyranny by American and British puppets as democracy would better serve Israel America and the West without Mumbai or 9/11? In other words leave everything as is- Mubarak Ben Ali Salleh the Abdullahs Abbas and the assorted tyrants so HAMAS Ang Suei Anwar Ibrahim Imran Khan would never see the light of day if they were to remove these corrupt servants of the West. On the Subject of 9/11 if knives made the difference in that horrific attack on the stupid American people how come Palestine isn't free moreover independent. You don't like soft targets what you want is sheer tyranny as it is in the Middle East and serious war crimes as is the Case with that Cancerous Bacterium called the state of Israel.
All would agree that NATO soft target approach in Pakistan certainly agitates and mobilize the Eastern front and vexes all of sensible humanity.
Davy de Verteuil | 11.30.08 - 6:00 pm | #
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Excuse me all over the place Gilad, 9-11 was an inside job...haven't you heard?
John Hawk | 11.30.08 - 6:00 pm | #
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Jewish mumbo Jumbo (Liar! 'If Jewish activists are tirellsy working in support of palestine", that palestine is spelled 'israel'. Sophie
...............
Thank You Gilad for your analysis attempt to expose UK and USA failure.
I would also like to say to other, Please, when you refer to the Apartheid state "israel", Don't atribute Jewishness to it. I know many Jewish activists are tirellsy working in support of palestine and they are against Israel, some of them goes further by asserung that "israel and zionism" are against Jeudeosim.
To Arizona, It appears that you are either unable to understand Gilad's article and or you are cought with your own biased and limited views.
Before you jump and label Arabs and Muslims as general population, you need to show some understanding of the fact that Almost all Arab and Muslim rulers are puppets in the hands of USA and Westren EU, while they exercise a brutal and tyrant measures against its people to serve the best interests of the west and by Proxy "isarel".
Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 6:02 pm | #
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Crap article misses the point the terrorism is the great ticket for governments to move and play their game’ the terror is instrumental to the song of the white house no terrorist’ no war on terror’ = no occupation no booty empty coffers’ it’s just as much as the part of the political process as voting’ terrorism was the means by which the governments made their case for conquering armies to kick start the great move into the middle east to finish what the 1947 occupation of Palestine started’ the establishment of the entity of the beast and his armies’ look you people “obama” the obama with his great speeches and charismatic presentations of what we all know already!. Riding on the obvious as shown himself to be a part of the same gang a what caused all this’ like he was going to bring some kind of messianic change’ he is just s as much a part of the problem “in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king” he’s up for the killing and mayhem to support the vision of the Zionist entity’ I give the tootsies and tutus more hope’ and Rwandans more hope of solving their problems than Americans understanding that they are the head of the python’ squeezing the life from the nations and trying to enslave people we don’t want your debt we don’t want to spend what we don’t have sober up!
Do your maths’ democracy + terrorism = change! Democracy - terror =no money no future! Democracy +terrorist = endless opportunity + rich pickings - cost to government = public spending backing +tax payers money = Angry public +terrorist = happy government!
idriss | 11.30.08 - 6:28 pm | #
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"I know many Jewish activists are tirellsy working in support of palestine and they are against Israel
Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 6:02 pm"
Come on, how many exactly? How many of them have given an agora to help the Palestinian freedom fighters? How many of them demand realization of The Right Of Return? How many of them are demand return of all the illegally occupied land back to its owners, the Palestinians? How many of them demand prosecution of the Jewish crimes? Ask them these questions and come back with their answers...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 6:33 pm | #
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yea, as long as ani-zionist means Europe's Ashkenazi Jews get to keep 88% of Palestine. sophie
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 6:33 pm,
Gilad for one meets all of your tough standards. Why he seems to buy the 9/11 narrative is beyond me. There are actually many Jews that are as anti-Zionist as Tom Feely must be, they are only on the fringe though. My guess is that few of them are religious and those that are have converted to Christianity. They do exist, they don't have the powerful voice of the well financed and organized Jewish lobby though.
atheo | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 6:45 pm | #
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India is now palying the game so let the media report to us the lies that make you all feel in like you know what is happening they are incontrol let them control your brain signals and interupt your thougths in case you think the unthinkable' that me and all my people' people of my faith' my family my mother my grandfather my genration as long as India is now playing the game so let the media report to us the lies that make you all feel informed like you know what is happening’ they are in control let them take control your brain signals and interrupt your thoughts in case you think the unthinkable' that me and all my people' people of my faith' my family my mother my grandfather my generation as long as we can remember are terrorist? that my unborn child is a terrorist because it suits your purpose' it makes the news you want to believe it' you'd rather believe I am a terrorist than you think your own government can kill with impunity and is lying all along the bloody pages of our story because it’s not story its “His-story” I’m going for a coffee’ I wish the people in Iraq and Afghanistan could have the freedom to say that without fear of missile homing in on them!
idriss | 11.30.08 - 6:52 pm | #
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sorry for repeating myself when you see typo’s mistake’s like that it usually means there is a glitch in the matrix!
idriss | 11.30.08 - 6:58 pm | #
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I always like to quote a Palestinian activist when asked what she thouht of anti-Zionist jews, she answered by saying that they were all wonderful, and then she add: all fifteen of them. I agree! Sophie
To Anonymous,Even though I don't discuss with nameless people who are afraid to put up their names to be eithr proud of what they say, or be brave enough to take responsibility for it. I will answer for the benefits of others.
Gilad Atzmon is one of them, Indep. Jewish voice in USA, Canada, UK are among them. Ilan Pappe, Miko Peled, Nurith El Hanan- Peled, Gideon Levy, Amira Haas and many others.
All of these named people and group, have one thing in common: Bravery and Honesty. This is not found among Abdullah(s) of Saudi Arabia and Jordan, Mubarak's egypt, Abbas in Palestine all those "rulers" Emirates and Gulf State.
Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 7:01 pm | #
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"Gilad for one meets all of your tough standards.
atheo | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 6:45 pm"
I know that. Therefore my "Et tu, Brute?" at his view on 9/11...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 7:09 pm | #
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You're right Ali..but everyone is surprised Atzmon got it so wrong..
Here is something to bring everyone back to reality.
TATA
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com...p?pg=11& ar=2174
Watch the Nazis.
Watch the Nazis have a fun time.
Watch the Nazis have a fun time demolishing Palestinian homes.
Watch the Nazis have a fun time demolishing Palestinian homes,
and watch yourself slowly but surely becoming an anti-Semite.
Palestine House Demoliton
11.27.2008 | YouTube.com
By Omarkhay1973
Palestine: Jeff Halper on House Demolition
Palestine House Demolition part 1
Palestine House Demolition part 2
Palestine House Demolition part 3
Edithann | 11.30.08 - 7:12 pm | #
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There are indeed some Jews who are truly part of the Human Race. They do not act as Jews or pretend to speak for Jews. They simply speak as human beings. They are extremely few, but beyond great! and I know who they are. No! Not Finkelstein nor his Papa-Guru Chomsky. Sophie
Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 7:01 pm,
Gilad Atzmon and Ilan Pappe are OK. I've read too little of Miko Peled and Nurith El Hanan-Peled to make a definitive judgment. Gideon Levy and Amira Haas are soft jewnazis...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 7:15 pm | #
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Edithann, Thanks for the reminder re: Halper (we;ll have him soon in Canada early 09)and of course, Chmosky and Finkeletein are clear with their opposition to isreal as well.
To Anonymous, despite my earlier statement, I will also reply for the benefit of dicussion.
I am not sure what you mean by stating "Levy and Hass are soft jewnazis". Could you please elaborate?
Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 7:25 pm | #
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Anonymous,check out Neturei Karta...PEACE TO ALL!..And good night...
A MESOPOTAMIAN | 11.30.08 - 7:34 pm | #
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Yes so what has the holocaust to do with Muslims? And what did the Palestinians do to disserve genocide! The Jews committed genocide when they came into Canaan it’s in them to kill so at least that biblical report is consistent with what we are seeing now read in the bible about them.
idriss | 11.30.08 - 7:38 pm | #
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A MESOPOTAMIAN | 11.30.08 - 7:34 pm,
why don't you tell the world load and clear HOW MANY Jews belong to that sect? Let's put all in the right perspective...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 7:41 pm | #
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Yea? Go ahead and name them for me! Take it from me: 99.99% of world Jewry is Zionist in one form or another. Sophie.
There are many Jews trying to remind all individuals that Zionists are the enemy.
Many simply don't believe it. We wait at our peril to know just what is going on?!
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 7:57 pm | #
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Cemal Guven Asti would'nt know a controlled demolition if it blew his fucking brains out.
Anarchisto | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 8:02 pm | #
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Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 7:25 pm:
"Chmosky and Finkeletein are clear with their opposition to isreal as well"
Sorry! Really? I've never heard anything of the kind, but I've heard them clearly oppose ANY kind of sanctions against Israhell!
As to Halper: another soft jewnazi, worse than Gideon and Amira.
Read and listen carefully to what these people WRITE, SAY and DO and you'll get to the meaning of "soft jewnazi"...
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 8:02 pm | #
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The USA, England and other have looked the otherway as Israel visits violence upon the people of Palestine. Israel kills, tortures, imprisons, and robs the Paestinian people, and then, we are shocked and outraged when it happens to them. Some of my dearest friends who have lived in Palestine witnessed the horrible abuse. I have seen with my own eyes the horrors of the their daily existence.
Liberal Democracy? How ridiculous. The American power structure abhors real democracy. They have overthrown 50 plus governments in recent years, many of them democracies.
Please go on the internet and look up "Economic Hitman" on Youtube.com. Listen to some of Noam Chomsky's coversations, or better yet, read some of his more recent books.
james sherman | 11.30.08 - 8:12 pm | #
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Personally, I don't trust any of them..Finkelstein or even Atzmon..although he's the one I believe the most...I've given up splitting hairs about the gradations of Jews..why waste time on that nonsense..just do as I have..accept the Zionists definition..as no one else seems to be making objections, so it's not incumbant on us to do for them. Does anyone notice that they try and push that 'hot potato' on others?
Who cares if one is more or less Zionist..scratch them and you will see they are 'ALL' tribal and would not nor could not give up their first loyalty to the 'Tribe'! They are taught that from early childhood..
Anyway..as for Atzmon..he's the first one who has ever written about what I have found so baffling about Jews..I have felt there was something very wrong with them..they have no empathy or compassion..and to me that's a major character flaw...
Has anyone ever heard of a Jew saving anyone? Would a Jew have hidden a Pole during the War the way so many Poles did? And isn't it odd, after 60 years they are just getting around to thanking them?
No, it's not in their make-up to give thanks to anyone.. and you will understand that 'flaw' by reading the following.
http://peacepalestine.wordpress....olved-conflict/
TATA
Edithann | 11.30.08 - 8:31 pm | #
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"However one thing is evident. The “War on Terror” is a total disaster. The so-called ‘terrorists’, whoever they are, have won. America and its allies have been defeated."
Disaster for whom Mr Gilad? You right Gilad; the terrorists have von; the U.S bloody racist terrorists have killed 1.5 million Arabs in Iraq, forcing 6 million Arabs flee the country, 18 million Arabs are refugees in their own Iraq, Afghanistan has been devastated by Western terrorists, the terrorist state of Israel is starving to death Gaza's population of 1.5 one million Arabs, Pakistan is being dissolved by the U.S., etc.
Where is the perspective Mr Gilad? You could much better? Oh my God! Let this bullshit formulated by the established media and the Neocon. Because they can do this bullshit much better than you and me.
"But it doesn’t stop there, throughout this war America has lost its primacy as a super power."
America has lost its primacy in the war on the terror, Mr Gilad?
The 'terrorists' have defeated the USA Mr Gilad? But the popular resistance, then? U.S. call these popular resistance terrorists. It is the people's resistance all over the world who have defeated the United States and not the terrorists. The popular resistance in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Venezuela, Palestine ... which the U.S. calls terrorists. Has the us defeated in its war on terror or in its war against the peoples and nations, Mr Gilad?
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 9:17 pm | #
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Cemal Guven Asti would'nt know a controlled demolition if it blew his fucking brains out.
Anarchisto | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 8:02 pm | #
Neither would you.
Al | 11.30.08 - 9:45 pm | #
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nor me.
evelyn burch | 11.30.08 - 10:53 pm | #
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"America and its allies have been defeated." Really? Read this article by Ahmed Quraishi: "EXCLUSIVE: Signs Of An Attempted Coup In New Delhi": http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/lat...t_col.php? id=78
sarah meyer | Homepage | 11.30.08 - 10:55 pm | #
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It is not 'terrorists' who have defeated the United States. It is the terror of USA that has defeated USA.
Anonymous | 11.30.08 - 11:24 pm | #
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Jewish mumbo jumbo
I asked a simple number? How many people are needed for planning and execution of an event as big as 9/11?
Pentagon or US state organization (overt and covert)are not gods. Their capabilities are limited. You cannot transport and rig the entire twin towers with explosives. You cannot coerce every technician every worker every official to involve in a scheme like 9/11. Someone will chicken out, someone will blow the whistle, someone will notice the irregular goings.. Yes, intelligence agencies may conspire or turn blind eye into activities of proxy groups. And off course events like 9/11 can be used by imperial and zionist establishment to whip up public support for their political agendas. But no criminal would commit a crime with hundreds of partners and expext it the crime will remain secret. Okay what about material evidence and paper work trail? They cannot be evaporated. These plans will leave a footprints in hundreds of drawings, computer disks, e-mails, communication memos. Just like Mumbai attackers. It is all done in plain view. There is involvement of Intelligence agencies and lots of conspiracies preceding this attack. But gentlemen! we don't need extra conspiracy material coming from dark unused corners of your brains. It is okay to be alert to all possibilities but fiction must not be allowed to overtake reality. Many readers here are neither engineers nor technically oriented and may give credence to the cacaphony of "inside job" theories. The conspiracy theorists are hi-jacking the attention of public from basic facts, they are shifting the focus from US involvement in Middle East for its imperial designs. Instead conspiracists are directing us to seek "James Bonds" within CIA or MI6 or Mossad.
@ Mr Helpful. You don't need too many people and expertise to hi jack a plane. You need one pilot to steer it. But you need many expert people to demolish twin towers the way it was done.
@ Atheo. One of the person involved who came forward was prostitute claiming Muhammed atta slept with her the night before.
These attention seeking fellas coming forward will not stand scrutiny of a cross examination. They have no material evidence. They are holocaust survivors. After a while they start believing their own lies.
@ Hanbarkmeyer. There may be footage of Airplane hitting Pentagon or not. BUT. the thousands of tonnes of rubbles collected from Pentagon site is still buried somewhere in N.York. Go there dig out, take a few Kg of this rubble to a an everage metal analysis laboratory. There you will find residue of plane material in the rubble. You will also find out residue of fuel oil and nature of explosion. There you may also find residue of any commercial/military explosive used if it was used. Did they destroy all the rubble from Pentagon? No they cannot. It is a tall order. Go and ask an engineer this question.
"Can you destroy the forensic evidence dispersed within one thousand tons of rubble?"
He will scratch his head before he utters any word. But conspiracy theorist destroy the evidence in a second in their mind in a virtual world. For these guys nothing is impossible. All becomes possible as their mind manufacture never ending BS. All figment of their imagination. A spade is a spade. Engineers do not need CNN or Fox tell them it is a spade. And most important of all Engineers are simply minded people. They think in simple terms. Yes they can build and achieve complicated things etc. but every step is constructed with solid simple facts. No wild imagination or hallucination.
Cemal Guven Asti | 12.01.08 - 12:08 am | #
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Jewish mumbo jumbo
@Anarchisto. You don't need to be an expert in controlled demolishion. But what you need to know is that. Uncontrolled demolishing need little expertise. Hi-jack the plane slam into building. Bang. That is all.
But controlled demolishion need expertise. Just like landing of a plane. Anyone can crash land a plane. very easy. But if you want to land the same plane in a controlled manner that needs expertise. Expertise at the design of a plane that can land safely and expertise in controlling during landing process. You don't need a paper from a university to state that you are an engineer. But you must have a technical mind and basic understanding of what is possible. Otherwise you will believe Pyramids were built by Aliens and they impregnated the local priest's wife on their way back to Galaxy of BS.
Cemal Guven Asti | 12.01.08 - 12:27 am | #
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Indians admit it was an inside job
We have received this mail from an Indian mailing group which consists of oppressed communities in India including Sikhs, Dalits, Christians and Muslims. Look, this is what they have to say. They project our work against Hindu Zionists in India.
IHRO@yahoogroups.com ;
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: [IHRO] The Mumbai Massacre -- The untold Real story !!!
Dear Friends:
It appears from Arun 1951, that the real cause of terror in Mumbai was generated by BJP goons have penetrated in Indian Military for the sole purpose of creating riots between Hindus and Muslims.
As this is the case, urgent action is required to capture army men and Members of Hinduvta as well as BJP party heads. Charge them with treason for their actions brought terror attack yesterday. Yesterday Indian nuke Military was alerted to take action on Pakistan. This dirty work of BJP would have brought a nuclear war that would have killed millions on people on both sides.
It is very important for our government to take immediate action on the BJP and their terror unit Hinduvta forces and charge them with treason.
Thank You
Arvind Amin
Danyal-Pak | 12.01.08 - 12:50 am | #
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@Cemal Guven Asti
I am fascinated that in your argument it was done by 19 hijackers but if it was a conspiracy several hundred would be needed.
Think long and hard about this, you fool!
A small team of 6 maybe 8 Mossad agents working as janitors or maintenance contractors in the World Trade Centre could have rigged the place in a few months...
Akram Rosenbaum | 12.01.08 - 1:02 am | #
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Bush Sr. replaced the Shah with an Iranian mulla.
Bush Jr. replaced the Afghanistan government with an Iranian mulla,
Bush Jr. then put another Irnian mulla in Iraq. Syria and Lebanon are on hold, but getting ready for their Irnain mullas to.
And now it is Pakistan's turn to host one of Bush's Iranian mullas.
Lovely death squads, great drug lords and valuable corruption, and lots of nice tribal and civil wars, India will just Love it's new neighbor.
Terror? Not yet, give it a while as things get Interesting.
Snoozer | 12.01.08 - 1:54 am | #
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Jewish mumbo jumbo
@Akram RosenBaum. I wrote above the reasons why 19 hi jackers can do the job but you need hundreds of people for a controlled demolishion.
Here is another angle. Can a small team of 6-8 Mossad agents pull the job? The answer is NO! they cannot.
Here is the reasons. 6-8 janitors cannot transport and install the explosives in twin towers. Logistics and transport is too big for 6-8 ten agents. You need hundreds of people.
Buildings like twin towers are run buy an army of maintenance works departments. Any work be it electrical, plumbing, masonry, electronics, Cabling, glass etc has to go through relevan work departments. There are forms to be filled in, different departments authorize the work, any modification has to be approved and changes be recorded. An army of technicians make sure buildings run smoothly. No outsider can come and place tons of explosives without being caught with watchful eyes of these guys. A technician responsible from 231 will simply notice the notice the mossad or CiA modifications and he will pull the plug. Noone can co op all the workers of twin towers in such a rigging scheme. These guys will not allow their buildings be blown up by anybody. It is their job , their life , their baby. You think they will allow 10 Mossad or CIA to walk in and do what they want to do? When demolishing takes place There are managers technicians working in shifts that will face certain death. Can any of you commit such an act? Surely you must have a few buddies at your workplace.
These buildings cannot be brought down with a few kg explosives. These are not lunch boxes. You will need tons of it. Instead of focusing on conspiracy and Mossad focus on the conspiracy what followed the 9/11.
The imperial US interest colluding with zionist designs openly conspired against People of Middle East and Afghanistan. And still ongoing. That is the issue
Cemal Guven Asti | 12.01.08 - 2:07 am | #
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Quote from Gilad Atzmo's article 'Mumbai Massacres as the Defeat of Counter-terrorism': "Who were the attackers? Who was behind them and what did they try to achieve? However one thing is evident. The “War on Terror” is a total disaster. The so-called ‘terrorists’, whoever they are, have won. America and its allies have been defeated."
And when Atzmo writes this, concerning the 'inside job by the Mossad and CIA of 9/11, the writer insults thinking people: "It doesn’t take a genius to gather that this enormous defeat is an outcome of a chain of events that started with a single orchestrated attack that took place in September 2001. To those who fail to remember, the 18 terrorists who devastated the world on 9/11 didn’t carry a nuclear bomb, they weren’t equipped with some advanced weaponry."
'Me thinks' that Gilad Atzmo (apart from some correct things) is on the wrong track. Yes, the ''so-called ‘terrorists’, whoever they are, have won." But Atzmo is dead wrong when he writes that: "America and its allies have been defeated." The people in different countries have been defeated again, but the secret services - which orchestrated the attack - like the 'jackals' of the CIA, RAW, ISI and Mossad see to it that their murderous managers profit. Politically and economically.
Another quote, this one from the 'lightning rod' article (here on ICH too) in one more of those disinformation rags, The Daily Star: "Indian security forces said at least two of the captured terrorists were British-born Pakistanis, while the total number could be as many as seven. In a sick twist, they are thought to have possible links to Yorkshire towns where the 7/7 outrages were plotted." - The 7/7 London bombings were a 'false flag' operation too, and most people understood this when seeing the faked evidence and propaganda, asking: Who profits?
A couple of hours after the disastrous subway and bus bombings on July 7th 2005,with the army guarding 'The City' and the wealth of it's Rothschild banks in central London, I did a story on this connection, because I thought it was to stupid to be true. I wrote that there was a 'Red Alert' all over Europe, because either MI5, MI6, Scotland Yard, the London Metropolitan police and the rest of their law enforcers are incompetent, or something else is going on. It's 9/11 revisited, like now in Mumbai, including all the overused expressions." - [end excerpt] - The rest is here at Online Journal: London blasts boost Bush and Blair - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/2pbu38
Concerning the Mumbai massacre I think it's a 'false flag' too. And in Mumbai again none of the overpaid intelligence services like the Indian RAW, Pakistani ISI, the CIA or Mossad saw anything? Gimme a break!
In an article - published the same day as Atzmo's - on the site of Counter Currents, Yoginder Sikand wonders: "Mossad-CIA Connection To Mumbai Terror Attacks? - 29 November, 2008 - The widely-read Mumbai-based tabloid Mid-Day, in an article about a building where numerous militants were holed up titled 'Mumbai Attack: Was Nariman House the Terror Hub?', states: "The role that Nariman House is coming to play in this entire attack drama is puzzling. Last night, residents ordered close to 100 kilograms of meat and other food, enough to feed an army or a bunch of people for twenty days. Shortly thereafter, the ten odd militants moved in, obviously, indicating that the food and meat was ordered, keeping their visit in mind, another cop added.
"One of the militants called up a television news channel and voiced his demands today, but, interestingly, when he was asked where are they all holed him, he said at the Israeli owned Nariman House and they are six of them here", one of the investigating cops said. Since morning, there has been an exchange of gun fire going on, and the militants seem well equipped to counter the cops fire. To top it, they have food and shelter. One wonders [if] they have the support of the residents, a local Ramrao Shanker said."
A Mossad/Israeli hand in the affair might seem far-fetched to some, but not so to others, who point to the role of Israeli agents in destabilizing a large number of countries as well as possibly operating within some radical Islamist movements, such as a group in Yemen styling itself 'Islamic Jihad', said to be responsible for the bombing of the American Embassy in Sanaa, and which is said to have close links with the Israeli intelligence. Some have raised the question if the Mossad or even the CIA might not be directly or otherwise instigating some disillusioned Muslim youth in India, Pakistan or elsewhere to take to terror by playing on Muslim grievances, operating through existing Islamist groups or spawning new ones for this purpose.
If this charge is true - although this remains to be conclusively established - the aim might be to further radicalize Muslims so as to provide further pretext for American and Israeli assaults on Islam and Muslim countries. The fact that the CIA had for years been in very close contact with the Pakistani ISI and radical Islamist groups in Pakistan is also being raised in this connection. The possible role of such foreign agencies of being behind some terror attacks that India has witnessed in recent years to further fan anti-Muslim hatred and also to weaken India is also being speculated on in some circles.
Whether all this is indeed true needs to be properly investigated. But the fact remains that it appears to be entirely in the interest of the Israeli establishment and powerful forces in America to create instability in India, fan Hindu-Muslim strife, even to the point of driving India and Pakistan to war with each other, and thereby drag India further into the deadly embrace of Zionists and American imperialists.
In other words, irrespective of who is behind the deadly attacks on Mumbai, it appears to suit the political interests and agendas of multiple and equally pernicious political forces—Islamist and Hindu radicals, fired by a hate-driven Manichaean vision of the world, but also global imperialist powers that seem to be using the attacks as a means to push India even deeper into their suicidal axis." - [end excerpt] - There's a lot more information in the article at Counter Currents - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5kqvab
Or, looking at the propaganda and disinformation rag The New York Times yesterday: "Armed Teams Sowed Chaos With Precision. The attacks seemed to be coordinated meticulously, suggesting a high level of training and preparation." - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/55hmnv
One can always ask where this "high level of training and preparation" the NYT writes about comes from. The whole attack looks very professional, and apparently those involved are trying to make it into India's 9/11. Anyhow: "When the terrorists landed in front of Mr. Dhanur’s boat, they were just three blocks straight down a narrow lane from Nariman House, a five-story building housing a Jewish center run by a young rabbi, Gavriel Holtzberg, and his wife, Rivka, who had moved from New York. But the attack does not appear to have started there." [end quote]
Used to the lies and fairy tales of the NYT, one isn't surprised that they're not even mentioning that Nariman House is one of thousands of Chabad Lubavitch Centers, as Kats very informative wrote: "Thanks to the high pitch noise of a theatrical cat fight and after 294 comments, no one seemed curious to ask what this Chabad Lubavitch so called "Jewish Center" is doing in India. Letting Lubavitchers open a Center in your country by itself indicates a certain degree of zionist infestation in the highest levels of politicians of that country. For those who are not familiar with one of the largest, most powerful, and most dangerous sects in khazar judaism, I cut and pasted some parts of Carol A. Valentine's article below. - Kats very good comment with links is here at Url.: http://tinyurl.com/59gkf6
So we must put the question again: Who profits?
It's the usual divide and rule again by false flags. Like 9/11 or the London bombings.
Kill some sardines to catch a whale.
.
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 2:35 am | #
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The US & its allies are not defeated by the terrorists-they are the terrorists themselves & those who stand by their side:the israelies,british ...
Awni | 12.01.08 - 2:51 am | #
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Gilad Atzmo's claim of the following is way off base; "The Anglo American crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria are committed by elected governments on behalf of the British and the American people."
The Bush Gang Regime was first Appointed by a corrupt, Mafia dominated Supreme Court.
The Mainstream Media is dominated almost exclusively by Zionist Capitalist interests which rule US British and Canada's business and finance. Diebold machines and voter registration manipulation also interfers with the voter's democratic process.
As a result of the people being shielded from the truth by the MSM, bloody MIC and subject to daily lies of Zionist Capitalist propaganda the working-class are kept in a perpetual state of confusion and generally unable to think and act in their own interests.
As such governments are only representative of the Ruling Capitalist Class interests. They definitely do not act "on behalf of the British and the American people."
To establish conditions where a real democracy will benefit All the people. Go to; http://www.worldsocialism.org/usa
.
Bill Johnson | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 3:40 am | #
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Henk,
Thank you again, this first day of December 2008. You are amazing.
And yes! Kats has given us such useful information once again.
You might find the Webster Tarpley video on ziopedia.org interesting. I do.
He explains the convulated and complicated scheme which he says is now in play - and it is all about breaking up Pakistan, a friend of China, with the ultimate objective being the destruction of Russia. This being the life long longing of the monster Brezinski it seems.
I wonder why Brezinski is so desperate to destroy Russia? Is it because Poles tend to hate Russia, is he Jewish - because they are always trying to destroy Russia it seems, or is it simply that he finds it important to occupy himself in his later years, or is it that he finds it imperative for some reason best known to himself that the British/US dominance of the World continue - or what?
I wonder whether the Muslim extremists have been as mad as they seem to be now, or whether they have been created for the express purpose of destroying Islam - as Christianity has been destroyed in the West? Why did Arnold Toynbee, who was Jewish and a member of the CFR and all that, talk about the coming war against Islam in about 1945 or even earlier? The war against Islam was planned.
Isabella | 12.01.08 - 4:39 am | #
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"The so-called ‘terrorists’, whoever they are, have won."
Wow, just how many whacks with the stupid stick did the author of this crap take? Exactly what have the 'terrorists' won?
The so-called war on terror (I hate that phrase but it's the phrase that's used) didn't fuck up the US economy, the fucking evil bastards in the Republican party did independently of the terrorism problem.
And a big FUCK YOU to the author of this for being an apologist for evil fuckheads who want to kill others so they can stay in the intolerant stone ages.
Anonymous | 12.01.08 - 4:42 am | #
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shoving in a few lies ???!!!!
Typical
noway | 12.01.08 - 4:52 am | #
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I wonder what on Earth the Dalai Lama has been doing in Nigeria of all places.
and, why has the British Government in the shape of the Jewish DAvid Miliband as Foreign Secretary, told China that Tibet is now regarded as part of China.
The British Government has been vague about Tibet for a long time, not coming down on any side in any definite way.
What is going on??? And, did the Dalai Lama know what they were planning before he set off for Nigeria? What IS going on?
I watched Medvedev's video blog
this morning, available on his website or on Russia Today. He is so open and frank - and he LOOKS open and frank, honest and straight forward.
Am I being naive about the Russians?
He also looks very much like the last Tzar or Russia, Nicholas, now a saint in the Orthodox Church. He really does!
Isabella | 12.01.08 - 4:53 am | #
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@Ali Mallah | 11.30.08 - 6:02 pm "I would also like to say to other, Please, when you refer to the Apartheid state "israel", Don't atribute Jewishness to it. I know many Jewish activists are tirellsy working in support of palestine and they are against Israel, some of them goes further by asserung that "israel and zionism" are against Jeudeosim."
Ali Mallah...pay no attention to hecklers from this site. If anyone at all in Israel is trying to stop that "permanent revolution machine" we know as Zionism, my hat is off to you.
It is my belief that only those inside the Zionist system can change it. My hope is that a Champion will arise who can do something. We in the US who hate it are ourselves handcuffed and shackled.
Do your best. That's all anyone on this earth can do.
Pony Express | 12.01.08 - 4:58 am | #
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@Cemal Guven Asti - 11.30.08 - 3:43 pm - Quote: "And you Henk Ruyseenaar! don't copy and paste your standard letters as answers here. I am an engineer and I don't like clowns manufacturing BS and clouding the facts. I do know presence of web sites and articles peddled by so called "professors" and "experts" backing the conspiracy theories. Well there is always mediocre engineers just like mediocre doctors and other proffessionals. I wouldn't blame these "experts" but I would question the standarts of the universities who graduated them." - [ ]
Cemal, it's not difficult to fully agree with 'Centavo' who wrote: "I am so sick and tired of people nattering on and on about 'conspiracy theories.' There are in fact conspiracies related to the acquisition and perpetuation of power. That is NOT theoretical. Period. End of story.
So. The next time you hear someone open their mouth and spout off some ill-considered nonsense about 'conspiracy theories', tell them they sound like a fool and that they obviously don't understand what the hell they are talking about. Anyone. Even if it costs you your job, or a friendship. Believe me, it feels great and another door will always open for you."
Definitions of 'conspiracy' on the Web:
* a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act.
* a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot).
* a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose.
Source: WordNet - Princeton - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5p79vq
And that's exactly how the totalitarian - mostly zionist regime - also in the US acquired power and profit. They conspire to kill and rob. Everywhere and using all means. To take just one example: some people may have been watching mega propagandist Ruppert Murdoch's 'Conspiracy' on History Channel? Among his many history lies, Murdoch had this fake 'documentary' television series, that was created and aired on his Orwellian Newspeak and rewriting 'History Channel' that says it "examines recent historical events from the perspective of conspiracy theory."
But Murdoch and his reality falsifying crew really doesn't. Never. It's all lies and fakes, rewriting history, and 'fixing the facts around the policy' or, better said, the US/UK regime's gun boat diplomacy. - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/2q9l2h
And this criminal cartel is laughing all the way to their banks. While many people are the victims of their conspiracies...
They don't understand that at the end of this global rat race for power and profit, even the winner only will be a rat.
More conspiracy on 'government' level? According to the Jerusalem Post The Times of India reported on Sunday that "a source told the newspaper that some of the other Islamic terrorists killed in the drawn-out Indian commando raid on the building had actually stayed at the Chabad center, also known as Nariman house, as part of the planning for the brutal attack.
"They stayed in Nariman house on a rental basis, identifying themselves as Malaysian students," said the source, adding that police were investigating how Chabad House rooms were rented to non-Jews.
The Jerusalem Post could not confirm the report. Url.: http://tinyurl.com/636l9q
So, if I got that right, from other sources as well, that a lot of the 'terrorists' stayed at the Nariman Chabad House?
No more questions, Your Honor!
And, Cemal: I don't care how or what you write about me, as long as you spell my name right!
Apart from that: you promised to become world famous by solving the 9/11 enigma. You'd show the world and us why it was no inside job. But I haven't seen any 9/11 solution yet from your head or hand. Since you're such an eloquent writer, why not tell the Scholars for 9/11 - this growing group of American and other global scientists, diplomats, journalists/researchers about your 9/11 theory, and what according to your research really happened on 9/11? - Scholars for 9/11 - Url.: http://www.st911.org/
To finally solve the atrocious enigma? And than publish the full story with your evidence, so we all can learn?
I'm sure we are many, looking forward to your explanation!
OK?
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 5:50 am | #
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The article was written as a DISINFO piece or is the reflection of a persistent STUPIDITY.
There is no proof there were hijackers.
And the charade marches on.
Centavo | 12.01.08 - 6:01 am | #
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@Cemal Guven Asti - 11.30.08 - 3:43 pm - Quote: "And you Henk Ruyseenaar! don't copy and paste your standard letters as answers here. I am an engineer and I don't like clowns manufacturing BS and clouding the facts. I do know presence of web sites and articles peddled by so called "professors" and "experts" backing the conspiracy theories. Well there is always mediocre engineers just like mediocre doctors and other proffessionals. I wouldn't blame these "experts" but I would question the standarts of the universities who graduated them." - [ ]
Cemal, it's not difficult to fully agree with 'Centavo' who wrote: "I am so sick and tired of people nattering on and on about 'conspiracy theories.' There are in fact conspiracies related to the acquisition and perpetuation of power. That is NOT theoretical. Period. End of story.
So. The next time you hear someone open their mouth and spout off some ill-considered nonsense about 'conspiracy theories', tell them they sound like a fool and that they obviously don't understand what the hell they are talking about. Anyone. Even if it costs you your job, or a friendship. Believe me, it feels great and another door will always open for you."
Definitions of 'conspiracy' on the Web:
* a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act.
* a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot).
* a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose.
Source: WordNet - Princeton - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5p79vq
And that's exactly how the totalitarian - mostly zionist regime - also in the US acquired power and profit. They conspire to kill and rob. Everywhere and using all means. To take just one example: some people may have been watching mega propagandist Ruppert Murdoch's 'Conspiracy' on History Channel? Among his many history lies, Murdoch had this fake 'documentary' television series, that was created and aired on his Orwellian Newspeak and rewriting 'History Channel' that says it "examines recent historical events from the perspective of conspiracy theory."
But Murdoch and his reality falsifying crew really doesn't. Never. It's all lies and fakes, rewriting history, and 'fixing the facts around the policy' or, better said, the US/UK regime's gun boat diplomacy. - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/2q9l2h
And this criminal cartel is laughing all the way to their banks. While many people are the victims of their conspiracies...
They don't understand that at the end of this global rat race for power and profit, even the winner only will be a rat.
More conspiracy on 'government' level? According to the Jerusalem Post The Times of India reported on Sunday that "a source told the newspaper that some of the other Islamic terrorists killed in the drawn-out Indian commando raid on the building had actually stayed at the Chabad center, also known as Nariman house, as part of the planning for the brutal attack.
"They stayed in Nariman house on a rental basis, identifying themselves as Malaysian students," said the source, adding that police were investigating how Chabad House rooms were rented to non-Jews.
The Jerusalem Post could not confirm the report. Url.: http://tinyurl.com/636l9q
So, if I got that right, from other sources as well, that a lot of the 'terrorists' stayed at the Nariman Chabad House?
No more questions, Your Honor!
And, Cemal: I don't care how or what you write about me, as long as you spell my name right!
Apart from that: you promised to become world famous by solving the 9/11 enigma. You'd show the world and us why it was no inside job. But I haven't seen any 9/11 solution yet from your head or hand. Since you're such an eloquent writer, why not tell the Scholars for 9/11 - this growing group of American and other global scientists, diplomats, journalists/researchers about your 9/11 theory, and what according to your research really happened on 9/11? - Scholars for 9/11 - Url.: http://www.st911.org/
To finally solve the atrocious enigma? And than publish the full story with your evidence, so we all can learn?
I'm sure we are many, looking forward to your explanation!
OK?
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 6:10 am | #
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@Cemal Guven Asti - 11.30.08 - 3:43 pm - Quote: "Can any of these conspiracists give me a number? No waffling just come forward and give me damn simple number? Let me tell you. You need hundreds of people.. hundreds of them. Now 9/11 "inside job" is over Do you think not one of them will not come forward and spill the beans? How can anyone with a little brain involve in a crime that has hundreds of partners?"
My dear Cemal, you must for instance have forgotten the Manhattan Project, the secret building of totally unnecessary nuclear bombs, used to bomb Nagasaki and Hiroshima? When - to start with - 51,000 (fifty-one thousand) 'Manhattan Poject' employees shut up?
The scientific director at Los Alamos was J. Robert Oppenheimer, scion of a prosperous family of clothing merchants. In Oppenheimer; the Years Of Risk, by James Kunetka, Prentice Hall, NY, 1982, Kunetka writes, p. 106, "Baruch was especially interested in Oppenheimer for the position of senior scientific adviser." The project cost an estimated two billion dollars. No other nation in the world could have afforded to develop such a bomb. The first successful test of the atomic bomb occurred at the Trinity site, two hundred miles south of Los Alamos at 5:29:45 a.m. on July 16, 1945.
Oppenheimer was beside himself at the spectacle. He shrieked, "I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds."
Indeed, this seemed to be the ultimate goal of the Manhattan Project, to destroy the world." - Eustace Mullins - Url.: http://www.whale.to/b/mullins8.html
Can you imagine, Cemal: they all kept silent! "Along with the new government houses being built, there was a huge trailer park. This trailer camp was built solely for the purpose of employees on the Hanford project. The city of Richland had to provide services for all these employees, which reached 51,000 during the peak war years.
New stores, drug stores, post office, barber shops, schools, and churches opened. The new school district had 2,135 students in 1944. A new multiple-building hospital was built in downtown Richland. A community center, park, theater, and civic groups were organized to provide entertainment to residents." - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5b3kp7
And everybody was silent as a mouse...
Even about what Oppenheimer said.
UC?
job" is over Do you think not one of them will not come forward and spill the beans? How can anyone with a little brain involve in a crime that has hundreds of partners?"
My dear Cemal, you must for instance have forgotten the Manhattan Project, the secret building of totally unnecessary nuclear bombs, used to bomb Nagasaki and Hiroshima? When - to start with - 51,000 (fifty-one thousand) 'Manhattan Project' employees shut up?
The scientific director at Los Alamos was J. Robert Oppenheimer, scion of a prosperous family of clothing merchants. In Oppenheimer; the Years Of Risk, by James Kunetka, Prentice Hall, NY, 1982, Kunetka writes, p. 106, "Baruch was especially interested in Oppenheimer for the position of senior scientific adviser." The project cost an estimated two billion dollars. No other nation in the world could have afforded to develop such a bomb. The first successful test of the atomic bomb occurred at the Trinity site, two hundred miles south of Los Alamos at 5:29:45 a.m. on July 16, 1945.
Oppenheimer was beside himself at the spectacle. He shrieked, "I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds."
Indeed, this seemed to be the ultimate goal of the Manhattan Project, to destroy the world." - Eustace Mullins - Url.: http://www.whale.to/b/mullins8.html
Can you imagine, Cemal: they all kept silent! "Along with the new government houses being built, there was a huge trailer park. This trailer camp was built solely for the purpose of employees on the Hanford project. The city of Richland had to provide services for all these employees, which reached 51,000 during the peak war years.
New stores, drug stores, post office, barber shops, schools, and churches opened. The new school district had 2,135 students in 1944. A new multiple-building hospital was built in downtown Richland. A community center, park, theater, and civic groups were organized to provide entertainment to residents." - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5b3kp7
And everybody was silent as a mouse...
Even about what Oppenheimer said.
UC?
.
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 6:27 am | #
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I'm sure someone already posted this, but here it goes again. one of the socalled hijackers had been dead 2 years before the towers came down, 2 others were still alive living in other countries, and they did not even show us a plane crashing into the pentagon. even if they only had knives are you telling us that 100 passangers couldn't take those hijackers out? what about the man who called home to tell his family that his plane was hijacked. he givers his full name. exactly why was it necessary to give his mum his full name. does she not know her son when he calls? all is a load of crap, and as for chaney making sure the planes do not get intercepted, he calls his war planes down. excuse me but to many questions unanswered and no real answers given for it. it was an inside job the entire world knows it except americans and many canadians.
The london bombings were questioned, and a squealer stepped up saying it was an MI6 operation. do not let your gov't fool you, it was an inside job. those people died because it was necessary to make war for our war criminals. those innocent lives are worth millions of arab deaths.
when the arabs refused to be ruled by our elite they were punished. not in just afghanistan but iraq and pakistan and iran, lebanon and syria. even egypt will find itself fighting for their independance once they realize they are being used.
personally I would love to see the gun factories and all war factories destroyed.
in the old days 1600's 1700's the leaders were on the front line with their solders fighting, not sitting behind a desk making millions on our soldiers deaths. there would be fewer wars, and who knows even civility towards other peoples.
so now that i have this off my chest, why are we not hearing anything about Palestine? I wonder how many people died since the war in india started?
Helen from Canada | 12.01.08 - 6:55 am | #
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Helen from Canada | 12.01.08 - 6:55 am | #
“in the old days 1600's 1700's the leaders were on the front line”,
and in fact were at the front, and in fact much earlier (middle ages). This is the way to get to be King, not to kiss ass and to totally prostitute yourself. Zero pride in politics.
There has been a rash of articles that start out with the 19 Arabs did it and the US/Oligarchy/Mossad/CIA took advantage of it, that is the articles side with the anti-War on Terror. But this no longer sells, as not one can be that ignorant, considering the preponderance of contrary evidence.
(Note Helen of Canada above.)
This is likely an organized plan. Would you rather be accused of taking advantage of it (no crime), or perpetrating it?
The key for humanity is to establish that the Arabs did not do it and end the perpetual license for the West to bomb Afghan villages, etc; who did it is secondary.
kla | 12.01.08 - 7:22 am | #
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@sarah meyer - 11.30.08 - 10:55 pm - Quote: "America and its allies have been defeated." Really? Read this article by Ahmed Quraishi: "EXCLUSIVE: Signs Of An Attempted Coup In New Delhi": http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/ lat...lat...t_col.php? id=78 ]
Sarah: for me the link didn't work, and I must say that it was difficult to find on Internet: many times sites blocked and crashing.
Makes me all the more curious, so here's the short link to the Pakistan Daily where I found it - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/5ounsp
OK?
.
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 7:32 am | #
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All of this and more on a giant scale..
http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/arti...cle.asp? ID=9754
TATA
Edithann | 12.01.08 - 8:05 am | #
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The key for humanity is to establish that the Arabs did not do it and end the perpetual license for the West to bomb Afghan villages, etc; who did it is secondary.
kla | 12.01.08 - 7:22 am | #
that was my point the arabs didn't do it, yet all i hear on the news is about the 19 hijackers in whcih all were supposedly killed, and one had been dead for 2 years before the towers came down. i don't by the crap they try to spew on the news.
it is like during desert storm when a little girl cried saying she had watch soldiers throw babies out of incubators onto the floor. it later turned out she wasn't even in the country when it happened but not once did i hear on american MSM that it was all false informastion. they never repeated anything of a sort when the facts came out. they completely ignored the story.
we are truly a brainwashed people. beliving the lies that our gov'ts have claimed as truth.
here in canada i think that enough people have shown their dissatisfaction towards our gov't tht the opposition leaders are trying to throw out the existing gov't. I hope it does but i also hope they know that we want our solders out of war zones because these wars are not the peoples wars. and when this happens i hope all other nations follow and do the same, whom ever have been tricked into wars. then maybe the world will see that we in the west are not represented by our gov'ts. especially teh american people.
Helen from Canada | 12.01.08 - 8:07 am | #
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Is "Gilad Atzmo" the same person as "Gilad Atzmon"? I'd like to get that straight if possible.
You guys all know Gilad Atzmon, right? He's the guy who has made it his life's work to transpose the musical values of a hard-bop saxophone solo to article writing.
And I can dig it. Jazz is wherever you find it.
And this is Jazz, man!
Mooser | 12.01.08 - 8:14 am | #
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Dear Helen..what makes you think you're so much better off? You have more Jews up there running things, just as they are in the UK..only under the radar and again under more cover..We're more open and more visible. What's so funny about Canada is you don't know who to follow..US or UK? But it's all the same don't you realize it?
Grow up..you're no better..only colder!
TATA..
Edithann | 12.01.08 - 8:16 am | #
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My guess is that few of them are religious and those that are have converted to Christianity.
Atheo
Holy Shit, is that stupid! You don't have very much contact with Jews, do you? I myself, being anti-Zionist, wanted to convert to Christianity to help the Palestinians (?) but, well, truth is, I can't swim. I'd never make it through the baptism.
Why do you think there are no Jewish surfers? Well, only "Iceberg", and he's a really cool guy.
Mooser | 12.01.08 - 8:21 am | #
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You have more Jews up there running things, just as they are in the UK..
Edithann
Edith, baby, you have no idea how bad it is. My local Safeway makes about ten different kinds bagels, already! More to the point, I would say, is the jalepeno bagel with chirozo. The Jews, obviously, are teaming up with the Mexicans.
If you ask me, that's culinary terrorism!
Mooser | 12.01.08 - 8:26 am | #
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"...We should keep our liberal democratic fantasy to ourselves, especially now when it had been proven as a faulty concept. Our insistence upon making Arabs and Muslims as stupid as us is not going to work...."
...I love that sentence - HA HA HA....it's true...
...anyway - Britain should be expelled from the EU...regardless..
Pity that Gilad doesn't find it in himself to admit Israeli complicity...(everywhere)
Follow the Facts | 12.01.08 - 8:38 am | #
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Monday, December 01, 2008
Delhi not suspending
ceasefire agreement
NEW DELHI, RAWALPINDI: Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) Director-General and Pakistan Army spokesman Maj-Gen Athar Abbas said on Sunday that the Army had not found any solid evidence of unusual military movement by India on the international border.
Talking to newsmen, he said the Pakistan Army was ready for national defence and to tackle any untoward situation on the western border. He said the Army was closely monitoring Indian military movement on the international border, but no unusual activity was found. He advised the nation not to worry about India’s reported ambitions.
“Our intelligence sources have also told us that no such directives were issued by the Indian government to increase the number of Indian troops on the Pak-India border,” he said.
Meanwhile, the Indian external affairs ministry, rejecting the news telecast by some Indian TV channels, said India was neither considering suspending the ceasefire agreement with Pakistan nor were any directives for the movement of the Indian Army to the Pak-India border issued. An Indian Army official said, “We have not received any orders from the government for moving our troops to the border and there will be no Operation Parakram-like mobilisation,” Press Trust of India quoted the official as saying. He was referring to the previous Indian Army build-up in 2002.
Earlier, some Indian TV channels had said the Indian government had ordered the build-up of troops on the border with Pakistan besides mulling over suspending the ceasefire pact with it. Also on Sunday, Pakistan’s military said the country’s ceasefire with India was holding and there was no military build-up on the border in the wake of the Mumbai attacks. The military was responding to Indian media reports that India has cancelled a five-year-old ceasefire on the border of the disputed Kashmir region, as tensions grow over accusations that the attackers came from Pakistan.
“We have seen reports in the media suggesting suspension of the ceasefire (in Kashmir) and movement of troops on the Indian side of the border,” Athar Abbas told AFP. “As far as the official authenticated reports are concerned, there is no such movement or mobilisation of troops. The ceasefire is holding.”
Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani phoned all the major political leaders of the country, who offered their complete support to the government in the wake of heightened tensions with India. The politicians who were contacted on Sunday included former Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali, AJK Prime Minister Atiq Ahmed Khan, Allama Sajid Naqvi, Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi, Dr Abdul Malik, Israrullah Zehri, Munir Khan Orakzai and Senators Shahid Bugti, Ismail Baladi and Haji Hanif Tayyab.
They appreciated the prime minister for consulting all the democratic forces in the country. The prime minister lauded the unity among all the political forces. He said Pakistan would explore all possibilities to normalise its relations with neighbouring countries as it believed in peace and harmony.
Prime Minister Gilani also called a national security conference for Tuesday at 2:30pm in the PM’s House to discuss the prevailing situation and evolve a joint policy. Prime Minister’s Press Secretary Zahid Bashir told a TV channel the meeting would be attended by all politicians.
Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said good relations with India were in the interest of Pakistan. In an interview with CNN, he said, “The government feels good neighbourly relations with India are in the interest of Pakistan. Pakistan has said its premier intelligence agency will cooperate with India in probing the Mumbai incident as our hands are clean and we have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of.”
Qureshi said Pakistan itself was a victim of terrorism and both countries could jointly defeat the menace. To a question, he said the Indian government had not yet provided any evidence to Pakistan on its alleged involvement in the terror attacks. He said Pakistan would take action against groups or individuals if the Indian government provided proof or evidence against them.
In the meantime, Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan phoned Qureshi on Sunday to discuss bilateral relations and views on the regional and global situation. Qureshi briefed his Turkish counterpart about Pakistan’s relations with India after the terrorist attacks in Mumbai. He said, “Pakistan strongly condemned the terrorist attacks and offered all possible assistance to India. Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and considers it a menace to humanity.”
Concerned American | 12.01.08 - 8:44 am | #
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This was a very good article. Brad
provided a very good response as well.
Fritz | 12.01.08 - 8:48 am | #
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I'm not sure why i'm being attacked, I must not be expressingmyself clearly.
i never once claimed we were better,
Grow up..you're no better..only colder!
TATA..
Edithann | 12.01.08 - 8:16 am | #
if anything i know my gov't is a zionist run entity. i have never supported my gov't and as far as following any country, the US or brit. it makes no difference which country they are all controlled by the same entity.
Helen from Canada | 12.01.08 - 8:50 am | #
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I see above some think it wouldn't be possible to prep the towers, but that has been documented very explicitly how and when that was done and once you become familiar to that, the mystery evaporates...
Another complaint above is that one doesn't commit crimes with hundreds (of partners) - that may be true, but that was also never the case. The key to a successful operation is that no one knows all and all know just a few and most have no idea of the totality in which they are involved. (You say SOMEONE must "know all"..? - OK, I would suggest Cheney knew all...)
There has been another video of the Pentagon event, taken from a completely different angle, but I cannot find it anymore. - It seems to show a very rapid light that hits the building, and no fuselage is visible. The clip appears as if the event was caught accidentally. just thought I'd mention it.
There is also research available now that takes a completely different tack on the purpose of 9/11 - to laundry funds and wipe out evidence of the financial assault on Russia in the beginning of the 90's. This research suggests that it was important where exactly the "planes" hit the towers and also that there were additional multiple explosions in other buildings for the purpose of making sure all evidence (of Russia operations) were eliminated from existence.
Follow the Facts | 12.01.08 - 9:04 am | #
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now this is a different subject,but i have been getting emails that claim to be from the FBI. some one is setting me up for a scam sting. i need to research the name Robert Mueller 111 as FBI director. they waana wire tap me. if so i can only hope they drop in for a cup of acid laced coffee.
according to them they state that i have some contact with the bank of nigaria which is nothing but prue BS. they want me to continue on and they will be monitering from their HQ. well if they say everything is legal, why stick their nose in it.
any how this is how the FBI/CIA works. either that or it's a scam.
bluetiger | 12.01.08 - 9:24 am | #
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Helen from Canada - 12.01.08 - 8:50 am:
There's absolutely no need to defend yourself against those who don't understand you.
It's their own fault, certainly not yours.
You're doing fine!
Henk Ruyssenaars | 12.01.08 - 10:10 am | #
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@bluetiger - 12.01.08 - 9:24 am - Quote: "any how this is how the FBI/CIA works. either that or it's a scam."
Why not show some emails so we can make up our mind, and/or are warned?
Ought to be easy.
And, Nigeria and banks you said?
In win at least 50 up to a 100 million a day if I had to believe all those frauds from Nigeria.
But they send out say a hundred thousand, and 3 or four suckers react and send money and info.
In this case it's mostlt greed and not curiosity that kills the cat...
Nigeria scams + lists - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/63begl
They are as 'honest' as US politicians who have sold the White 'Haus' again - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/6l39am
OK?
.
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:26 am | #
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Cemal Guven Asti:
Didn't know that acetylene is no longer needed to cut through steel since kerosene(Jet Fuel)can do it the deed so much more cheaply. What enegineering school did you attend? Do they teach thermodynamics? How much energy does it take to melt steel and pulverize concrete to submicron dust?
Josh | 12.01.08 - 10:27 am | #
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Quote "I wonder whether the Muslim extremists have been as mad as they seem to be now, or whether they have been created for the express purpose of destroying Islam - as Christianity has been destroyed in the West? Why did Arnold Toynbee, who was Jewish and a member of the CFR and all that, talk about the coming war against Islam in about 1945 or even earlier? The war against Islam was planned." end quote
Isabella | 12.01.08 - 4:39 am | #
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Thank you for this Isabella
and YES, indeed the war against Islam was planned, I wrote here, what I think, some of the reasons here (along with another comment for you):
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...345_htm/ #358633
but here it is again:
Truth seekers of ICH
Why demonizing Islam?
Why do the zionists and the NWO orchestrators fervently fighting Islam as an ideology?
Why are they spending so much time, money and energy to disfigure this belief system and to dehumanize its followers?
Is it simply because the Muslim world has some rich resources which they deem theirs and they are hell bent to control?
Or is it because the Muslims constitute a large section of humanity (almost ¼) which they want to reduce and cut down in their mad genocidal plans for the future?
Though the above reasons contain some truth and carry some weight in them, but that they are not the only reasons
They fight Islam because they know that the ideology within it could potentially threaten the elitists’ objectives and jeopardize their plans of total control of world economy, media, politics and power
1) Islam FORBIDS USURY and rejects financial systems which are built upon interest, debt and the exploitation of the poor:
“O ye who believe! Devour not usury, doubled and multiplied; but be God-conscious. That ye may (really) prosper” (3:130)
“Woe to those that deal in fraud, Those who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure, But when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due. Do they not think that they will be called to account?”(83:1-4)
“If the debtor is in a difficulty, grant him time till it is easy for him to repay. But if ye remit it by way of charity, that is best for you if ye only knew”. (2:280)
“God will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity: For He loveth not creatures ungrateful and wicked. Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and establish regular prayers and regular charity, will have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. O ye who believe! Be God-conscious, and give up what remains of your demand for usury, if ye are indeed believers.”(2: 276-278 )
.
nahida | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:31 am | #
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2) Islam calls for JUSTICE and gives the permission to fighting BACK and resisting oppressive and tyrannical regimes:
“Ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the desires (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
“To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight back), because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their aid; (22:39-40)
'Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not initiate aggression. God does not love transgressors.' (2.190)
“Show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant.” (7:199)
"O ye who believe! be steadfast firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, Let not a group's hostility to you cause you to deviate from justice. Be just, for it is closer to piety. Be God conscious; for God is Well Aware of what you do." (Quran; 5-8 )
3) Islam goes beyond the for SOCIAL JUSTICE to compassion and GENEROSITY
So he who gives (in charity) and is God-conscious, and (in all sincerity) confirms the good, We will pave his way to bliss. But he who is a greedy, stingy and thinks himself self-sufficient, and denies the good, We will indeed pave his way to Misery. His wealth will not be of any help to him when he falls headlong (into the Pit)” (92:1-11)
4) Islam calls for EQUALITY and brotherhood of mankind and outlaws racism :
'O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honoured of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware'. (49.13)
“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for those who know”.(30-22)
"An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black, nor a black has any superiority over a white" saying of Muhammed
5) Islam calls for FREEDOM OF THOUGHT and protection of the individual’s right to choose his/her ideology:
“no compulsion in religion or ideology” (2:256).
"No soul shall be made to bear the burden (liability) of another." (35:18 )
Furthermore, Islam constitutes a threat to their “new world religion” (New Age) that they have been paving the ground for, and shoving down the throats of spiritually parched people in the West, which on the surface looks appealing as it calls for unity of all religions, peace, and love, but upon closer inspection its dark core would be exposed
.
They start with the concept of “we humans have the divine within us” and end up with: “you are god in the making” and of course they the “masters” are gods already, hence a hierarchical system of superior beings and slaves would be established
The idea of “gods in the making” leads to an immensely blown up ego and selfish individuals
They start with “Peace and love” and end up criminalising any voice of resistance, hence turning the masses into brainwashed and artificially smiling zombies
They start with “duality” and end up with “there is no good or evil, both are the same and equally valued”
That's what they are cultivating the earth for, and that's why Islam is a REAL THREAT
Finally:
A BIG THANK YOU for all those who can see beyond the smog of deceit, and Please get informed, be vigilant and alert
.
nahida | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:31 am | #
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you know I don't know if this is true, but i did a search on Robert Mueller 111. this is interesting, according to this article he accepted to speak at the American muslim council back in 2002.
here is the article
[The American Muslim Council:] 'Mainstream' Muslims?
by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
June 18, 2002
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/423
FBI directors don't make a habit of breaking bread with organizations their agents may soon be investigating, perhaps even closing. Robert S. Mueller III, however, is about to make precisely this blunder: On June 28, he is scheduled to deliver a lunch talk to the American Muslim Council.
Mueller accepted this invitation, his spokesman Bill Carter explains, because the FBI regards the AMC as "the most mainstream Muslim group in the United States."
The AMC does indeed seek to convey a message of moderation. Its event this month, for example, is reassuringly titled "American Muslims: Part of America." AMC also boasts of having initiated "many of the historic events marking the entrance of Muslims into mainstream American culture and life."
Public relations, however, is not reality. The FBI may have missed the AMC's true nature because until just days ago its guidelines prohibited it from collecting general information on an organization of this sort. To help it catch up, then, here are five compelling reasons why Director Mueller should break his lunch date:
Apologetics for terrorism: The U.S. government years ago formally certified Hamas and Hezbollah to be terrorist groups; AMC sings their praises. In 2000, Abdurahman Alamoudi, the group's longtime executive director, exhorted a rally outside the White House with "We are ALL supporters of Hamas. Allahu Akhbar! . . . I am also a supporter of Hezbollah." In January, Alamoudi participated - alongside leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and al Qaeda - in a Beirut conference whose communique called for a boycott of American products.
The American Muslim Council also has ties to other terrorists. For example, Jamal Barzinji, whose Virginia house and business were raided by federal authorities in an anti-terrorism investigation three months ago, is on the AMC board and will be on the podium at the forthcoming AMC conference. In December 2000, AMC's Dallas chapter gave an award to Ghassan Dahduli. Eleven months later, he was deported from the United States on account of his connections to al Qaeda and Hamas.
In addition, Alamoudi has vehemently defended Omar Abdul Rahman, the blind sheikh now imprisoned for his role in New York-area terrorism. And AMC has both held press conferences supporting Sudan's National Islamic Front (a Department of State-designated terrorist group) and, in 1992, hosted the NIS's leader on a visit to the United States.
Helping fund-raise for terrorism: The Holy Land Foundation is one of the main American conduits of money to Hamas; not surprisingly, AMC has lavished praise on it, bestowing an award on it for a "strong global vision." When President Bush closed Holy Land after 9/11 for collecting money "used to support the Hamas terror organization," AMC responded by condemning the president's act as "particularly disturbing . . . unjust and counterproductive."
Run-ins with the law: AMC leaders have a long and colorful history of legal problems. Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin (the former H. Rap Brown), a one-time president of AMC's executive board, has the nearly unique distinction of having been listed not just once but twice as one of the FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives. Oh, and today he is sitting out a life sentence without parole for murdering a policeman. Other employees have less horrible but still troubled resumes. For example, AMC's current director, Eric Vickers, has been admonished, sanctioned or suspended by courts over a 10-year period due to his faulty practice of law.
Hostility to law enforcement: Even after 9/11, AMC's Web site linked to a document, "Know Your Rights" that advises "Don't Talk to the FBI." Indeed, AMC has fervently opposed successive administrations' efforts to stave off terrorism. And Vickers personally has, to put it delicately, a strained relationship with law enforcement. In his youth, he admits, he was "against the cops." He remains hostile but expresses himself more elegantly today, for example, accusing Attorney General John Ashcroft of "using national security as a pretext" to engage in a pattern of ethnic and religious discrimination.
Hostility to the United States: Its apparent patriotism aside, AMC harbors an intense anti-Americanism. "Let us damn America," Sami Al-Arian, a featured speaker at recent AMC events, has declaimed. Alamoudi, the longtime executive director, has dilated on the agony of living in a country he loathes: "I think if we are outside this country, we can say oh, Allah, destroy America, but once we are here, our mission in this country is to change it. There is no way for Muslims to be violent in America, no way. We have other means to do it. You can be violent anywhere else but in America."
Far from being "the most mainstream Muslim group in the United States," the AMC is among their most extreme. That explains why George W. Bush in 2000 returned a $1,000 donation from Alamoudi to his campaign.
Rather than endorse AMC by his presence, Robert Mueller should find other lunch companions next Friday. Then he should put the organization under surveillance, ascertain its funding sources, look over its books, and check its staff's visa status.
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
June 28, 2002 update: Director Mueller did speak at the conference and his speech can be viewed on C-Span2. The 32-minute talk includes some comments by AMC officials and replies by Mueller to questions. He defends himself from the criticism directed at him by Frank Gaffney, myself, and others for appearing at the event. Also of note is that Mueller won Alamoudi's praise for for appearing at AMC's conference: "Rather than be criticized, Mr. Mueller ought to be commended," noted a predictably satisfied Alamoudi.
Sep. 29, 2003 update: In light of Abdurahman Alamoudi's arrest today, I began a weblog entry, "United States of America vs. Abdurahman Muhammad Alamoudi," to follow his legal travails.
Oct. 15, 2004 update: Alamoudi was sentenced to 23 years in prison on a variety of charges. Looks like Mueller should have followed my advice above: instead of lunching with Alamoudi and his AMC colleagues, the FBI director would have done better to "put the organization under surveillance, ascertain its funding sources, look over its books, and check its staff's visa status."
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
bluetiger | 12.01.08 - 11:38 am | #
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Terror cannot change any nation's determination to lead or strive with others to build a world where there is more hope and prosperity, freedom and peace.!!!
Akber A. Kassam. [New-York C | 12.01.08 - 12:07 pm | #
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"Our insistence upon making Arabs and Muslims as stupid as us is not going to work."
Great words. Great words.
They bring not only Coca-Cola, they bring to Moslem society feminism, prostiturtion and AIDS, to list just some of the gifts.
1. When in the '80s Saudis wanted to institute testing for AIDS, they were hard pressed by Jonathan Mann (the doctor who spread the AIDS around the world (under the pretext that testing violates rights of homosexuals!)and American govt. not to introduce testing.
2. American feminists are trying hard to alienate women from men.
3. Moslem society never in a thousand years was concerned with social revolutions. They had peace and care for their poor based on obedidience to God.
4. Moslems never had hatred for other races, they were multinational society always. Jews, Mongols, Arabs, Persians etc. lived in peace.
5. The crime, stealing, fraud remains practically unkniown.
BUT..., they had always fights over religious points. They asassinated their leaders for religious sectarian reasons, and that remains their terrible problem. Unless they wake up and see the real enemy, they will perish, with their superior culture, science and, unsurpassed by Europe - their art.
Michael Pyshnov | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 12:19 pm | #
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Henk Ruyssenaars | 12.01.08 - 10:10 am | #
Thanks Henk
I know i don't have a flair for words like so many posters on here. and i do enjoy reading your posts. maybe i should proof read my work before I post it. I just get so angry when i see so much destruction and death and not being able to do anything to stop it.
Helen from Canada | 12.01.08 - 12:48 pm | #
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Bush and company says "It is very important to preserve Western Values". Certainly is for them.
Trash all ancient cultures, they say, if it gets in the way of profit.
But they don't know what an ancient culture is. Have to read a book to know that.
An article described how a veteran congressman pushed through a bill to kill Canadian Drugs and double the price that medicare pays (tax payer). He directly retired and hired on with big pharmy for $2 million a year.
Western Values. Screw your neighbor, if it pays.
kla | 12.01.08 - 2:32 pm | #
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We will bring the Arab and Islamic cultures into the 21st century to wallow in our liberties of self indulgence and personal pursuits of greed and gain. They shall become like us or die by our bombs.
George Bush | 12.01.08 - 2:49 pm | #
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The Zionists would love to see India and Pakistan go to war.
The Zionists are always agitating and fomenting confllict, violence and war.
History shows this time and time again.
Zionism must be defeated or else the world will continue to spiral out of control!!
Anonymous | 12.01.08 - 3:28 pm | #
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...would'nt know a controlled demolition if it blew his fucking brains out...
Neither would you...nor me.
evelyn burch | 11.30.08 - 10:53 pm
Another false flag terror denier that is too lazy to look at the many videos of controled demolitions which look identical to WTC7.
atheo | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 7:49 pm | #
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Cemal Guven Asti | 12.01.08 - 12:08 am
Ever hear of Sibel Edmunds whose testimony has been blocked for "national security"?
How about the owner of the WTC who stated that "they decided to pull it"?
Or Giulliani and the BBC who knew that WTC7 was going to come down and announced it ahead of time? No highrise had ever fallen from fire, not even after burning for days down to the Ibeams.
How about the flight controller who said that tapes of the event were crushed and cut up by his superior?
And the phone operators and emergency personel who have said that they aren't allowed to talk about their experiences?
How about the fighter jet pilot who stated that he was ordered to fly East over the Atlantic and away from DC?
I could go on... and on.
atheo | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 7:58 pm | #
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While we desperately shop to beat the bordom of our well fed, well housed and humdrum lives, very many people all over the world are ready to die killing us for our insolent insistence that they must adopt our way of life and love of gadgets. Mubai is a dress rehersal for hitting us again, not because we are vulnerable, but because we went on another "Crusade" of corrupt imperial hubris, led by that little pseudo-country with no borders, attached to an American cash placenta that keeps on giving, it telling us through the neocons to "kill more Islamofascists now so we don't have to have anxieties as we expand."
DE Teodoru | 12.01.08 - 8:33 pm | #
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@Helen from Canada - 12.01.08 - 12:48 pm - Quote: "I just get so angry when i see so much destruction and death and not being able to do anything to stop it."
Hi Helen!
Many of us get angry, and one way to do something, is share information, solutions ideas etc.
Everybody does what she/he can do to stem the tide of destruction of humanity.
Those who can do more - and you won't see nor hear them in the mainstream propaganda media - well, they do more!
All together we're quite a huge force.
UC?
.
Henk Ruyssenaars | 12.01.08 - 10:46 pm | #
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Another false flag terror denier that is too lazy to look at the many videos of controled demolitions which look identical to WTC7.
atheo | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 7:49 pm
i think you missed the joke sir| none of us would know a controlled demolution IF it blew our brains out. you know, not much knowing going on with no brains and all. easy on the "lazy" labels when comprehension is not your strong suit.
evelyn burch | 12.02.08 - 3:56 am | #
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evelyn burch | 12.02.08 - 3:56 am,
Bravo, brainless idiotess...
Anonymous | 12.02.08 - 5:39 am | #
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"truth is, I can't swim.
Mooser | 12.01.08 - 8:21 am"
It's more than evident from every comment you write that you can't swim...
Anonymous | 12.02.08 - 5:48 am | #
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CONSPIRACY THEORIES
The best way to safeguard against exposure of one or more REAL conspiracies is to mass produce and proliferate a plethora of FALSE conspiracies; to varying degrees ridiculous and or akin to the TRUE conspiracies.
Conspirators don't even need to meet in order to conspire only coordinate policies in a shared interest. CAPITALISM is a conspiracy; the dollar aligns the interests of capital over consumers and taxpayers no differently than a magnet aligns iron filings on a sheet of paper.
The tentacles of influence of capital pervade the democratic process and the nervous system that coordinates them is meeting in board rooms, mansion estates, exclusive restaurants, hotels and resorts, private jets and the ongoing babble of telephone conversations that share favours on the network of influence.
The Farmer and the Sheep Dog have a conspiracy but the average sheep would never concede it.
Allen L. Jasson | 12.02.08 - 6:47 am | #
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@josh.
Burning jet fuel was the cause of steel columns softening and subsequently buckling under the weight of upper floors.
What they thought you as thermodynamics in engineering faculty will not take you too far.
There is no thermodynamis, reaction kinetics or any other fancy technical jumbo mumbo.
It is an explosion, kaboom bang and that is it. Therefore the relevant science here is the "science of explosion" which based on empirical data. The mechanics of explosion cannot easily be calculated, there no formular to predict how an explosion will end up. Therefore most of the information are based on experimental observations. That makes hands on experience very valuable. Engineering school subjects will not venture into this field.
What "submicron" dust are you talking about?
Most of WTC material was big solid concrete pieces. All of them loaded to trucks and carted away.
But should explosives detonated and caused the collapse of twin towers then it is easy to identfy the nature of the explosive used. It makes no difference whether concrete pulverized or in submicron state, it can still reveal the type of explosives used. For curiosity I am a 1984 graduate of Middle East Technical University , Department of Chemical engineering. Bsc.
Cemal Guven Asti | 12.02.08 - 1:52 pm | #
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why were the 'remains' of the WTC carted away so quickly without any forensic analysis whatsoever?
dontbelievethehype | 12.03.08 - 1:29 am | #
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Blue Tiger is one of those people who without a doubt is a problem to his or herself, your trying to inflame public opinion against a charity organisation which he deems to be sponsoring terrorism’ but that’s the problem for everyone of us who want to help people especially Muslims’ it is when we get up to help our own people you call us terrorist!. Even though many of us gave freely of our money when Katrina struck town many of us sent what we had to help our fellow Americans when the hurricanes hit land.
If we don’t help our own you starve them into sub mission into accepting a sub human role’s isn’t it? Everybody thinks because they make a report that no one cannot question its authenticity we all should instantly believe it’? All the charities that help the poor Palestinians are deemed to be a terrorist or sponsors of terrorist. whoever helps the Palestinians has the title terrorist’ or giving aid to terrorist’ feeding Iraqi’s baby’s is supporting future terrorist? All is help to terrorist. There are no humans outside your introverted and warped understanding of the world’ all Muslims and no doubt many none Muslims know the plight of those who live in a huge prison’ except ignorant scum like you who’ who is clearly is an islamophobic person’ you promote hate amongst people’ every Muslim is Al Qaida to you’ regardless of their status no one would lift a finger to help anyone’ if people like you were in charge.
Keep publishing your verbal diarrhoea’ I doubt very much you will find understanding amongst the Muslims’ but carry on if it makes you feel safe’ but let me tell you and the world’ I know your understand of Islam is limited to the walls of your own prejudice’ you will except no explanation except what you want to believe. I believe Muslims in America are afraid because of the likes of people like you’ who think you are in a position to judge a situation without tasting firsthand the position of those you condemn’ you live in a twilight zone between war and fiction you’re a fear monger’ who wishes he could live his own dream’ the Muslims in America are proud of their religion even though they face the worst bigotry on the planet’ proud American Muslims’ who would be more than happy to lift your perceptions of them’ the fact that they are American Muslims blows apart your understand of the world!.
Even if they did give to Hamas so what? every Palestinian is a freedom fighter everyone of them deserves a home’ every mother’ child’ deserves not to live in mortal fear’ even though there is no evidence to substantiate any of what you have published or copied it’s all clearly anti Muslim since all of this post is about AMC and is speculative to say the least’ it may well be fantasy since it only supports a mind set.
idriss | 12.03.08 - 12:59 pm | #
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The biggest sponsors of terror are the United States! The one nation to be under investigation is all in the white house! The other is the abomination they call Israel! Which should be closed down and made into a home land for geriatric and non violent Jews’ with the right of return for all Palestinians the next is the united kingdom all have a record of complicity to commit war crimes against humanity from genocide to grand Larsson to murder and to flout international law set aside for the protection of people and nations.
idriss | 12.03.08 - 1:22 pm | #
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Who is Gilad Atzmo, and for whom does he/she work?
Mary Catherine Barton | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 10:02 pm | #
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Now that I think I know more about the author's identity, I think I know why he does not mention that our government is Zionist controlled, that our government's attacks on Iraq, Afghanistan and Muslims are to benefit Israel and are not really benefiting the citizens of the USA, and that Mossad did 9/11. This is the same with Chomsky and Zinn, who criticizes Israel, but will not fully admit to the horrors the power of Israel in the USA is costing us and the world. Please read James Petras's books on such subject, the most recent being, ZIONISM, MILITARISM, AND THE DECLINE OF THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES.
Mary Catherine Barton | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 10:28 pm | #
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Canadian Helen..
Sorry if I got you upset, it wasn't meant to be that way and I was having fun especially when you implied that the US was so terrible. I agreed wholeheartedly with you until I noticed you were Canadian and thought of the 'Kettle calling the Pot Black' as we're both in the same pot!
Anyway, this outlet is a good way of passing information..and I too am upset with what's allowed to go on in our name.
I'm not too happy being forced to be an accomplice to the slow genocide of the Palestinians.'In fact I'm furious about it...
As for reparations..I think we should start counting up the Iraqi bill and take it out of Israels Foreign Aid Package including those Loan Guarantees that somehow are always forgiven..well not this time!
TATA
Edithann | 12.07.08 - 8:45 am | #
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Mary Catherine Barton ..you haven't answered your own question..
Why do you think they don't admit to Isael's control of the US and what it's cost us? I've noticed that with Seymour Hersh too...
TATA
Edithann | 12.08.08 - 7:20 am | #
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